1981 Toyota Pickup 22R - No Good Fire!

[RuralTowner]

Well...in the near-to two years I've had no major problems...only when my main rear seal blew and forced me to use 5qts and stops every 15ish miles was there anything really major.

Got home on Saturday (5/7) just fine from work. Later that day I was trying to get a CD player I've had for some time powered up (before installation) but to no avail. Had the key on but engine not running, for extended period but since I did this for a far longer time when rigging the wiring for a trailer a few weeks back, I doubt that is the culprit.

Went to get in the truck to head to work this morning...cranks and cranks and cranks...no start so had to take the car. Got home and tried again with the same result. First thought might have been the plugs since I had a similar problem with a 78 Corolla I tried fixing but have now given up on (before the final decision of its fate it just cranked and cranked and all it needed was new plugs). Well here...new plugs didnt work. Then checked the spark...bright orange...which leads me to believe 1 of 4 possibilities: Voltage Regulator, Coil, Ignition Control Module, or the Electronic Control Module (these last 2 I dread given the cost of replacements).

Now first I pulled the cover on the regulator...so as to get visible access to the coils there...when turning the key to ON...nothing (presumably as it should be)...then when cranking the key only 1 set of points inside engages while the other does nothing. Pulled regulator completely and come to find out 1 side of the unmoving points was burnt...took some find sandpaper to the points...reinstalled...cranked engine and now nothing appears to work on it. I DID check the ohm resistance and it SEEMED to work okay on 1 side...the other is questionable since I've not had this kind of problem before and so not sure if I tested it right. If only 1 side was working when suppose to and not the other...a replacement is in order.

At the moment thats as far with the at-home testing I got when I ran out of light (shade-tree minus the tree and so must rely on good ole sunlight). Fortunately the local AutoZone can test the regulator and even the ICM...though haven't asked to see if the ECM can be checked.

I know I probably wasn't very on some points but have any of you with one of the older trucks had a similar problem where you had no fire? If so what was the solution on your end?

IF in the most unfortunate chance its the ICM ($330 from RockAuto) would any of you by chance have a good working used one anywhere? Had a 77 Pinto that this happened on once (crank and crank) and just swapped in a used one from another Pinto. IF I have to cough up the dough to buy one...there goes buying those 32x11.5x15 A/Ts for my offroad toy...NO the truck isn't the one. At an average of about 28-29mpg the trucks been my main commuter for the past two months while the cars been used elsewhere.

Either way at the moment I'll hopefully know more tomorrow...as long as I get to AZ before they close when I get off from a 2nd job I start tomorrow (only a few hours worth but should be worth it money wise).

 

[RuralTowner]

Nothing? Not even a rough hint? I have a replacement regulator and coil on the way from RockAuto (the coil is just in case). To keep options open are there any aftermarket ICMs that might work? AutoPartsWearhouse.com has several it seems but I'm not at all sure what one would even hookup proper. Though if any and all would work I have some tolerable price options (as little as half or even less that of an OEM replacement).

My trucks 81' 1/2ton Standard (base).

 

[RuralTowner]

Okay....simplification...are aftermarket Ignition Control Modules (ie by Mallory) that can be used in place of the OEM in older non-EFI vehicles if the problem isn't solved with what will be coming via FedEx. 300+ for an OEM replacement is out of the question for me cost wise.

 

[toyotafan]

Thanks for the post. How did you figure it out and where did you end up getting the OEM replacement?

 

[RuralTowner]

Didn't need replacement...

As post title says, turned out I didn't need one. Did find out where I could get one from a coworker ( http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/search/?searchType=global&N=0&Ntt=ignition+control+module&submit= ) so lined up on one up from Mallory for about 60$ or so. Don't remember the price offhand for the one I would have gotten as they had several options across a fairly large price range.

Turned out that it was my coil. I was getting spark but it was simply too weak (yellow instead of blue). When I looked into it further...had the ICM not been working the coil wouldn't have been putting out anything.

When the new regulator (although this wouldn't have been a cause apparently...so there went another 40+$) and coil...installed both...fired right up. Was starting to wonder though about the ICM....it was a pain in the arse to uncouple from the coil. If this didn't work though...I would definitely got one from that site.

 

[toyotafan]

Well, that's good that you didn't need it and that it was the coil that caused the issue. How's it run now, I assume everything is fine and you've got plans for another 100k or more on that 81?

I didn't see if your post, how many miles are on that truck? You've had it hold long, two years?

 

[RuralTowner]

As the odo didn't work proper I've no way to really tell just how many are on it but it has an easy 250k plus on it. Just recently had to replace the transmission (synchros took a dump) and now have a 5sp in it (though it took also getting another 4sp so I could get the bell housing to make the 5 bolt up). Now WOOHOO 32MPGs!

 

[toyotafan]

As the odo didn't work proper I've no way to really tell just how many are on it but it has an easy 250k plus on it. Just recently had to replace the transmission (synchros took a dump) and now have a 5sp in it (though it took also getting another 4sp so I could get the bell housing to make the 5 bolt up). Now WOOHOO 32MPGs!

32 MPG is good.

 

[RuralTowner]

As long as it stays consistent (and gas prices sadly) the savings will pay for both transmissions (since it took 2 to make 1 usable) within a year.

 

[Dadstruck]

nice post - did you get this fixed

 

[RuralTowner]

Yes. The tranny is in and has been doing great for the past 3 tanks of gas. 31-32+ mpgs...though the current tank looks to be even better since I got over 200miles on a half tank (would be about 33mpg...but that wont be for sure until I fill up again) vs the 180ish on the previous few.

 

[MD_Weems]

oh wow - thanks for the update on this though

 

[GearHead]

Interesting. The only problem I've had with my 22R with 230,000 miles was when the solonoid went out. I just replaced the entire starter (it's cheaper to do so then just replacing the solonoid) and everything has been fine since. Those are great engines, they run forever. Everything still running properly for you?

 

[RuralTowner]

Everything's still running good.

Fairly recently on a whim I took a peek under the intake manifold to see if I might glimpse where my oil leaks were coming from. One would think it hard to do when its all that oily dirty crust under there...but wasn't it turns out. Up until then after running for any length of time, when I'd park I'd leave some decently large drip spots on the ground...the largest would be about mid//right of the engine. It'd been doing this for the better part of 2 years btw.

When I did look, I saw the collected oil driblets on my filter. Now I do not know if the truck had this same oil leakage problem BEFORE I got it, since I replaced the filter//oil nearly as soon as I got it home and the title transferred over. Not long after this I didn't care much for the dummy lights and so installed REAL gauges. Normal oil pressure would be 60psi cold idle...40 hot idle....60psi road speed. Then a couple years back I had an incident that caused me to leave a large oil pool in the parking lot of the vets office (uh oh!) some 75 miles from home. Took me 5qts of oil to get home by stopping about every 15 miles and adding 1qt, coating my underside in oil (at least rust shouldn't be a problem for a long time) and even getting a light coat on my tailgate! I assumed this was the rear seal since that appeared to be where it was coming from. But when that seal was replace I still had a very bad oil leak (and the inside of the bell didnt have the telltale oil drenching that would have been another sign of a failed seal)...turned out my emissions system had somehow started to draw oil and it was leaking OUT of the EGR! I put a plate in place of that so no more leak there. After this time my pressure would hover just above 40psi (at road speed and at idle when starting out cold) and be at 20psi hot idle...still well within tolerable levels although on the lowermost end.

Needless to say after seeing that oil driblet a few days back, I got a replacement filter and went to change it out. The existing filter came was barely snug (when installed it was put in good and tight), so I presume that during the oil loss of coming home (probably the main culprit) and over the course of time the filter's rubber seal probably shrunk enough to allow gradual oil loss and pressure drop. Replaced my filter...now its back up to the 60//40//60!

Oh and by the way...mileage is still good to GREAT! Have had some NICE(!) spikes up to 36...a few more of 34-35+...with overall average of 32-33. I have a possible parts truck lined up...just need to do some more follow up. The guy who told me about wasn't totally sure of its year but said its front end looks exactly like mine (1980) which means it could be an 80-83. If that's the case I'll be set for spare parts for life.

I'd like to find (at the bare minimum) a very early 80s 22R engine block so I can get it rebuilt and have it on hand when the inevitable does come. That way all I need do is pull my existing head//manifolds...drop the tranny...pull the engine...install rebuilt block...install the uninstalled...and do any fine tuning.

By chance...and to double check, is the 1983 22R still part of that first run before they changed things? IE like going to the infamous single row timing chain (glad mines the old dual row....the chain will probably last or outlast the engine) and incompatible (with early 22Rs) heads//manifolds? I know that 82 for sure is chock full of donor parts to mine. But is the 83? I know an 84 is out of the question.

 

[GearHead]

Everything's still running good.

Fairly recently on a whim I took a peek under the intake manifold to see if I might glimpse where my oil leaks were coming from. One would think it hard to do when its all that oily dirty crust under there...but wasn't it turns out. Up until then after running for any length of time, when I'd park I'd leave some decently large drip spots on the ground...the largest would be about mid//right of the engine. It'd been doing this for the better part of 2 years btw.

When I did look, I saw the collected oil driblets on my filter. Now I do not know if the truck had this same oil leakage problem BEFORE I got it, since I replaced the filter//oil nearly as soon as I got it home and the title transferred over. Not long after this I didn't care much for the dummy lights and so installed REAL gauges. Normal oil pressure would be 60psi cold idle...40 hot idle....60psi road speed. Then a couple years back I had an incident that caused me to leave a large oil pool in the parking lot of the vets office (uh oh!) some 75 miles from home. Took me 5qts of oil to get home by stopping about every 15 miles and adding 1qt, coating my underside in oil (at least rust shouldn't be a problem for a long time) and even getting a light coat on my tailgate! I assumed this was the rear seal since that appeared to be where it was coming from. But when that seal was replace I still had a very bad oil leak (and the inside of the bell didnt have the telltale oil drenching that would have been another sign of a failed seal)...turned out my emissions system had somehow started to draw oil and it was leaking OUT of the EGR! I put a plate in place of that so no more leak there. After this time my pressure would hover just above 40psi (at road speed and at idle when starting out cold) and be at 20psi hot idle...still well within tolerable levels although on the lowermost end.

Needless to say after seeing that oil driblet a few days back, I got a replacement filter and went to change it out. The existing filter came was barely snug (when installed it was put in good and tight), so I presume that during the oil loss of coming home (probably the main culprit) and over the course of time the filter's rubber seal probably shrunk enough to allow gradual oil loss and pressure drop. Replaced my filter...now its back up to the 60//40//60!

Oh and by the way...mileage is still good to GREAT! Have had some NICE(!) spikes up to 36...a few more of 34-35+...with overall average of 32-33. I have a possible parts truck lined up...just need to do some more follow up. The guy who told me about wasn't totally sure of its year but said its front end looks exactly like mine (1980) which means it could be an 80-83. If that's the case I'll be set for spare parts for life.

I'd like to find (at the bare minimum) a very early 80s 22R engine block so I can get it rebuilt and have it on hand when the inevitable does come. That way all I need do is pull my existing head//manifolds...drop the tranny...pull the engine...install rebuilt block...install the uninstalled...and do any fine tuning.

By chance...and to double check, is the 1983 22R still part of that first run before they changed things? IE like going to the infamous single row timing chain (glad mines the old dual row....the chain will probably last or outlast the engine) and incompatible (with early 22Rs) heads//manifolds? I know that 82 for sure is chock full of donor parts to mine. But is the 83? I know an 84 is out of the question.

Well, after a quick web search, looks like the 83 IS part of the first generation of the pickups. However according to my research the 83 22R is after they modified it, says that they went to the single row timing chain in 1983. I have an 87 myself with a 22R, a little bit newer, but haven't had an issue with the timing chain yet. It's been rebuilt so it's hard to know if the timing chain was swapped, pretty sure it was but I need to check.

I have an oil pressure gauge as well installed, and I run at the same pressures (60-40-60). Interesting stuff.

 

[RuralTowner]

Okay so in effect I could go with the 83' 22R engine block since everything would be direct-bolt-on. As long as the double row timing gear isn't too wide to fit on the 83' crank(as long as they didn't make the crank stick out only just enough for the single row). If there's no problems..well...the search will be on soon enough.

I MIGHT even have a complete truck (almost...since according to the source...it got rear ended so the back half is a mess...but the front is ok)...as long as its still towable. If not...I'll be dismantling what I can use and the owner can then scrap the rest and still make a profit.

 

[toyotafan]

I wonder if your oil pressure didn't drop because you put the plate in (depending on where you put it) so the oil chamber didn't get changed from what it had been? Nevertheless, sounds like you need to overhaul or swap. I'm not certain how far up the blocks go, but I would think that the 87 is still in the range for a straight swap.

With the complete truck, would you keep the cab, powertrain and front-clip and scrap the rest, or are you just looking for the powerplant?

 

[RuralTowner]

The plate was installed AFTER the oil issue, to stop the oil loss (since a rear seal replacement didnt do the trick) I traced it up through the EGR valve which oddly...since the guy I talked to about that said that shouldn't have been happening. My oil pressure was good up until that day I had the sudden loss...installing a 1/8in steel plate between the EGR and the head stopped the leak (a piece of soda can didn't probably because it wasnt a perfect pattern). Now though the oil pressure is back to normal...I'm assuming that the rubber seal on my filter had shrunk (explaining why it wasnt very tight) and allowed continued (but not immense) oil and pressure loss. NOTE: I noticed the overall drop in pressure during that hair-raising drive home with stops every 15miles to add 1qt. It stayed consistent during that trip @ the same pressures I've seen over the past 2 years almost as a result. BUT so far the new filter has stayed good and tight and pressure has been staying near the original-on-purchase-date 60psi cold idle // 40psi hot idle // 60psi @ road speed.

My truck's engine is one of the very first series of 22R which I know for sure limits compatible (direct bolt on) parts to within the mid80 to 83 block. If the parts truck turns out to be a match (ie within that year range)...I would be taking the whole thing as spare parts so long as it was road worthy enough for a tow. Otherwise I'd be taking only the engine and tranny (dependent on if its a 5sp ). Wouldnt want the transmission if its an auto...and I've already got a 4sp spare now.

 

[GearHead]

Wow, pretty comprehensive thread here. So in effect you are talking about putting an earlier double-row timing chain on the 83 engine that you have? I have no idea if this would work or not, but-- let me know! I might just want to do something crazy like that with mine if I ever get around to rebuilding the thing.

 

[RuralTowner]

Wow, pretty comprehensive thread here. So in effect you are talking about putting an earlier double-row timing chain on the 83 engine that you have? I have no idea if this would work or not, but-- let me know! I might just want to do something crazy like that with mine if I ever get around to rebuilding the thing.

No. I'm looking for an engine block (at the bare minimum) that would be perfectly compatible with first-series components. I just need to do some followup on 1 possible source...and if that doesn't work out its on to a pick-a-part place about 120mi away. I would certainly hope the 83 block's timing setup would allow a dual row. The idea of having to toy around with a single row timing every 60k miles after chain replacement (where its needed or not) isn't too comforting. Whatever happened to ole' fashioned push-rod systems? (sarcasm) Could pull the head...do what else needed doing...reinstall head...then test it all out. Not reinstall and hope you have all the alignment right...attach everything else...and cross your fingers.