Transmission issues w/ 1981 2WD 22R

[RuralTowner]

URGENT! Transmission woes 1981 2WD 22R

EDIT: Barely managed to limp 9 miles back home this morning after it did it again no less than 3-4 times.

My truck is a 2WD 81' with one of the early 22R engines...for starters. The engine is definitely on the worn side but still runs fine. Now the transmission (a 4-speed) after nearly 2 years of ownership is starting to have some issues. 3rd-gear has always been noisy @ about 20-25mph...isn't as bad when I put pressure on the stick though. This can be annoying but not intolerable. But over the last week the transmission has popped out of gear a few times after engaging the clutch when slowing down from 4th gear. This is followed by the somewhat subdued grinding of gears that does not go away unless I come to a complete stop...and won't happen again until it decides to pop out again. I do have a book on the truck so the different possible causes are known to me...but I'm thinking a replacement is in order since the truck had anywhere from 150k-230k when I got it...and I've put about 20k on it since I got it. Below are my questions since now I'll be looking for a possible replacement while I still have time.

First: What model year range of trucks have compatible mounting to the 81' 22R? This will aid in finding a donor locally.

Would a 4-speed (or 5-speed if there are any) from a 20R equipped truck bolt right into place and is there there anything I should know that may be different from the later models?

IF I could find one would I be better off going with a 5-speed and would this require me to also swap the axle to preserve the proper ratios? Additionally would the 5-speed of an otherwise compatible year bolt right up to the engine w/o issue? As this truck is a commuter, I'm not interested in 4x4. (I have a 62' IH Scout I'm working on for that purpose. )

NOTE: I did read elsewhere on this site that going from a 4-speed to a 5-speed may or may not require the moving of the support bracket.

Also, the only transmission swap I've yet done...actually the entire drive train...was with a Corolla. Did a full drive train swap out of a 3-speed auto from a 78 and installed a 5-speed from a 77. The 3-speed had the problem of occasionally slipping and wouldn't "park" in Park. Had to use chalks on ANY and all inclines to prevent rolling. So I'm open to helpful hints.

I've never yet had extremely major issue with this truck, and at the moment is my main commuter with its 28-30mpgs. The only 2 serious repairs was a waterpump (the one that came with the truck) that seized on me on the way to work, and a blown rear main oil seal (took 5qts of oil and stopping and adding a quart about every 15miles for 75miles to get home). I have an alternate driver that is OK on the gas but I like the truck better even though it is and DOES look like a beater (within and without). Faded primer-red with a shot interior.

 

[tbplus10]

Sounds like the synchros are shot in this trans, probably wouldnt be economicly wise to rebuild.
79 was the first year with a compatable trans for the 20 and 22R engines.
2wd truck running gear didnt change a lot upto the late 80's, there were some changes in support brackets and minor engineering items but for the most part the assemblies are bolt in.
Dont know the r/r ratio you have but I doubt bolting in a 5spd would be a problem that might require changing it, first gear is a little lower and 5th runs out a little higher, depending on how worn your engine is you might see issues running the highway at speed and coming up on grades, other than that it should work ok.
The only issue I see with the 5spd is driveshaft length, I think the 5spd was a couple inch's longer than the 4spd so you might have to shorten yours or check the length on the doner truck driveshaft.
Make sure you get a truck 5spd there is a difference between the cars and trucks.

 

[RuralTowner]

THANK YOU! Your post is actually more helpful than the one I got at ToyotaNation...THAT one got into the more confusing bit about exact tranny versions. What I researched about various 5-speed versions didn't amount to alot of difference in ratios...only a few-thousandths or hundredths in some cases. 4th gear in the 5-speed is still 1:1 like 4th is in the 4-speed...while nothing came up about the rearend. But any installation will be road tested with a lead vehicle to make sure 55 is still 55.

Synchros...well that was one the acknowledged culprits...though at the very bottom of the "only hope so" list.

Running at highway speed the current engine hasn't had any real problems. At the moment I'm running with a gutted thermostat but it will stay around 180-190F in summer months...and in winter months the temp gauge won't even register at all in the morning but will run about 100F during the day, but it does need another coolant flush. No doubt the lack of a proper thermostat and resulting lower operating temp would affect winter mileage. Going freeway speed though is a different story but since I rarely have that need, it's not often enough to be an issue. Though it HAS gone as high as 230+...but this was noticed quick enough and went on short enough that I was able to stop and let it cool (just a few minutes would do the trick)...no permanent damage has been noticed from any case. Up grades it is a little on the dogged side but again...there's only a couple places that require that and those are only occasional visits and are uphill 1 way for only a few hundred yards. Sometime in the future I'll do a rebuild...maybe even scrounge up a 20R head just to experiment...to get the engine back up to par. But for now it still moves along quite reliably despite the oil usage of about 1qt or less every 1-3 weeks...if I do much beyond 60 it definitely does begin to use a bit more but staying at 50-55 has seen stable usage. Running 215-75-14s (finally 4 matching tires) doesn't hurt either...and it is now up to 30mpg average over the last 2 tanks. Since I live in the desert this also helps if lose sand enters the picture. Used to only get 28-29 when I only had the 215s on the rear (195-70s were on the front) what with the extra down force of the nose bearing down while driving and the bed being even more of a dragging air scoop.

Anyhow, below is what I found just today. It's a direct copy-paste of a post made in other forums...though in this case changes made after reading the above post will be in double brackets. All major finds came from being paired with the 22R.

One possible source is from an 87' with a 5-speed but it's a 4WD. The year disparity might or might not be an issue since he donor also has the 22R...but the driveline would definitely need to come with it. This one is relatively close by (distance wise) but @ an unknown price yet. - [[After reading the above...maybe this would work.]]

Possibility two, all I have is a phone number from the same shop that pointed out source one. - [[A complete unknown.]]

Possibility three, is from an 88' but is a 4-speed. This one is the best initial possibility despite the year difference. The owner runs an appliance shop that I pass by every workday so getting it wouldn't be a problem. Wants 80$...sounds fair to me. - [[This one I know for sure came from a p/u although it was one turned into a flatbed. Would be a perfectly acceptable option if nothing else was found.]]

Possibility four, ended in a thorough bust. A local had a 74' which is basically ended that search.

[[The below I hope to hell that my existing clutch assy is straight across compatible since the tranny doesn't come with it.]]
Possibility five....VOILA found a 5-speed. Only about 10 miles away in town, It's been sitting out uncovered for at least several months but outwardly is clean, save for the input shaft which needs to be cleaned of the patina. Came from an 84' and since it definitely came from behind a 22R it makes it even better. This would have been going apparently into an early 80s Toyota RV but that project for the guy never came about so is why I have the chance here. The throwout bearing is shot but the hope is there that the existing 4-speed one will work...if not...okay. Clutch fork comes in from the driver's side instead of passenger but the 2 bell housings should swap fine...if not it's just a matter of moving the hydraulic lines. Only bad point is that no driveline to go with it...so if mine won't fit...its going to get a bit shorter. 50$...I'm jumping at it...and is reasonable enough to warrant any other issues and at this price seems worth the gamble. Will be picking it up tomorrow... - [[This one as mentioned was going to be going into an RV and to the best of the seller's memory it did come from another p/u. If it turns out my existing driveline is too long...though I'll be doing some tranny length measurements on both to be sure...either I can go ahead and cut mine down or maybe get the driveline from one of the prior options.]]

Here's to hoping all works out.

 

[tbplus10]

Ok heres some thoughts on what you got so far:
Buy a new throwout bearing, they arent that expensive and you dont want to have to do the job over again for a low buck part you should of replaced the first time. Call it cheap insurance.
A 4x4 trans doesnt have the extended rear tailshaft you have on your 2wd, this could pose problems because the 5spd tailshaft is different from your 4spd, I dont remember the tailshaft being interchangeable between the two trans.
The input splines should be the same, remember Toyota is famous for "dont change it unless it isnt working" assembly line changes cost money and Toyota has been the best for years at stretching their money.

 

[RuralTowner]

Option 5 turned out to be a 2WD version...and a measuring tape has it within about 1/2 an inch of the existing tranny length...this will be confirmed when the broken one is out. I decided a new throw out bearing is in order anyway...along with a friction disc since mine was pretty well worn already when I last had the tranny out to replace my rear oil seal. But I've run into a problem...and I've attached a copy/paste of a post from other forums.

UH-OH! Complications :cry:

Here I am...all jazzed I found just the transmission I've been looking for...where all I'd need do is maybe swap bell housings around for proper starter placement and simply move the hydraulic lines from the right side to the left.......disappointment on the former.

My existing transmission's bell housing is solid with the rest of the body. The replacement transmission's bell is removable and has the starter placement high on the drivers side...not high on the passenger...this will place it right below the exhaust manifold.

The existing transmission is coming out REGARDLESS. But should there be any problem with the installation of the starter on the drivers side of engine? IE clearance with manifold (which while I'm at it needs a new gasket anyway.

-------------

EDIT: Just pulled my starter (which works perfectly) and turns out it doesn't line up properly with the new tranny's bolt holes (which btw) are non threaded so would otherwise require a bolt and separate nut...but the protrusions on the starter to aid lining up wont let the edge sit flush with the tranny body. Just keeps getting better and better...I've stopped work for now until I can figure out this mess.

 

[RuralTowner]

Oooookay....good news and bad news.

Good news: I don't have to worry about the starter/clutch slave problem anymore.

Bad news: Bolt pattern isn't quite...right. Got my old one off and finally had the 2 side by side...just the top 2 bolt holes are 1/8th an inch off. This alone is enough to shoot THIS swap down. Took the tranny back...fortunately the guy was amiable enough so I got the 50$ back. He was just as puzzled as me. Actually turns out he got it from a guy who got it from a guy.

Well...looks like I'm going to follow up on that available 4-speed (which I'm dead certain is from a 22R Toyota) and if it turns out that one is a perfect match (I'll either have a bolt pattern made up or have the old one on hand to match directly), I'll then get it for 80$ and install it. Then just stay in the market for a 5-speed but w/o the urgency of this one.

 

[tbplus10]

As I was reading your reply I was puzzled about the fit and suspected the sellor didnt know if he'd sold you a trans from a 3.4, 3.0, 2.7 or 2.4 engine.
The 3.0 and 3.4 trans are compatable with one another and the 2.7 and 2.4 trans are the same unit but neither will swap with one another or with a 22R.

 

[RuralTowner]

Ok bumping due to a new development on this. I followed up on that 4sp replacement from that 88 and did a double take when I thought I saw a seam; a removable bell housing. Since I had a pattern of my old with me I confirmed it had an identical bell-to-engine pattern as my existing...shot transmission. Then got to thinking. Went back to that 5sp...which save for the bell the 2 are outwardly identical. Got a bell-to-transmission pattern off the 4sp and compared to the 5sp...that pattern was the same along with input and output shafts. IDK...maybe the 5sp came from the 2.7 (never seen that one in person before) so that might account for the slightly larger bell and reversed starter//clutch position. The 5sp was suppose to have come from a mid-80s Toyota engine...decided for the final time to take the gamble.

So got the 5sp back and swapped bells...this will let it be mounted to the back of my 22R. The only "odd" thing is that isn't the typical 2WD 5sp mounted to a 22R (of any year) usually more than merely 1/2in longer? Both 4sp trannys (the shot one and the one from the 88) are both 29in on the mark in length...measuring across the top center of the bell to the end center lip of the output shaft dust cover. The 5sp is 29 1/2in (only the rear support bracket would need minor tweaking to align the bolt holes) and since I have about 2-2 1/2in gap between the end of the drive line and the drive axle when the line is slid all the way in the tranny...I should be safe as long as I dont hit too big a bump or put too much weight in back. I have only the 4sp drive line that came with the truck...and a 1/2 inch over-length

With any luck the 5sp will work out as hoped...initially it was a letdown due to mismatching bells but that 4sp changed things. For 140$ at the moment it would tentatively appear I now have a 5sp and backup 4sp...and 1 good usable bell between the two. Tomorrow my new clutch disc comes in since my current one is well on its way to being worn out. <Crosses all fingers>. I hope this all works out...and if it successfully gets me a couple more mpgs in the process...gas savings at current prices will pay for the transmissions total price within less than a year.

 

[tbplus10]

That trans could've come from a 2.4/2.7 which like I said bfr share a pattern or it could be from a 3.0 check the input splines and input shaft length against your existing trans just to make sure all is good.

 

[RuralTowner]

Spline patterns match. My drive line slides into the tranny with only minor difficulty because the splines just need some cleaning, and as near as I can tell even the input works. Only other difference from the input shaft from the tranny that came with the truck, the input on both the 4sp and 5sp trannies I bought are just under 1/8th an inch shorter...but still plenty to make it into the pilot bearing. Tomorrow I pick up my clutch disc so by tomorrow evening I should or the next evening...one of them anyway since it will have to be after getting home from work...I will find out if the truck will move.

 

[RuralTowner]

Talk about a pain in the ass. Had to remove the line-up peg on the drivers side of the tranny since the engine already had one here...and drill out the hole to just oversize. Drilled out the peg hole in the top of the bell to make sure the top peg in the engine will go in...STILL not lining up even though all measurements. Mind you it took me an hour of trying before I noticed the first peg was causing a problem. Had to remove my seat and extend the notch in the floor board since the belly of the tranny extended several inches further back than the old one did I can get the tranny in except for the last 3/8th of an inch...goes in the clutch but not making it into the pilot bearing (yes the input shaft of the 5sp matches my old 4sp)...tomorrow though will be Round 2...I think the back of the engine is sagging a bit too much (to be expected w/o the tranny in place)...so will need to get a jack and piece of wood under it to raise it a bit and somehow work my way under to finish the lining up.

When I originally had my old tranny out it too was a pain in the arse...but not like this. At least I can take comfort in the fact that the problem would be identical with that replacement 4sp. <sigh>

 

[tbplus10]

Sounds like this swap is gonna fight you all the way to the finish line.
I wish I had a magical recomendation to make the job easier but it sounds like you covering all the bases already.

 

[RuralTowner]

Ok 1 problem: I cannot get the transmission to line up with the pilot bearing. The bell goes on just fine on its own. The input shaft at its narrowest and thickest is identical to the old transmission and pilot tool and it goes into the clutch disc fine...BUT!

The input shaft is 3 1/8th inch instead of 3 1/4 like the old tranny. The closest I can get the transmission installed is 1/8th an inch from flush...I do not have enough input shaft length it seems to make it to the pilot bearing to complete the lining up. NOTE: The input shaft of both the 5sp and spare 4sp are identical...so even if I was using the latter I'd still have the same problem. I've spent 2 afternoons so far trying to get it lined up.

Here's my question: Did flywheel thickness change at all between 81 and 88? It would seem that if it were even 1/16th an inch thinner I could jostle the tranny into place. I already eliminated the throwout bearing hitting the fingers as a culprit...there's a good inch or so of travel as it currently stands before the 2 touch when I move the fork. Or possible is the newer years pilot bearing thicker?

I'm at a loss to get things lined up.

 

[RuralTowner]

Managed to remove the alignment pegs in the engine to see if that will at all help...will know when I get back to it tomorrow after work. Got back too late today to try...particularly since the extra set of hands wasn't available to handle the rope at the rear of the tranny.

The replacement transmissions are 1/8th inch shorter in the splines. Okay what changed for them to do that? Was the center of the crankshaft where the pilot shaft is pressed in...extended back that much more in the later years?

 

[RuralTowner]

WOOT! Seems to shift in all gears fine! FINALLY OVERDRIVE so bye-bye(?) 28-30mpgs and hello 30-32(?). Now can risk the drive to near Phoenix to those Pick-A-Part places...though I'll still be driving in the slow lane even though the posted limit of 75 wouldn't be as BIG a deal anymore...much over 65mph and oil consumption starts to noticeably rise from the norm of about 1/2qt every 2 weeks-ish.

Just need to reroute the speedo cable now. Going to remove it completely then knock a hole in the tunnel so it runs from the speedo...through and down along the dash...then into the tunnel. As it stands its about 3 inches too short to work proper .

Drained what little oil was left in the tranny before doing the test run...had a bit more metal paste than the dead 4sp did...felt a couple slivers in there too but the test went fine. Going to run it for this next week using this oil batch which should be plenty of time to clear up any other loose metal grit. Then I'll put in a fresh load along with some STP.

Now the only problem is that my speedo won't work with the tranny. 45mph indicated is 60...my speedo is a 0-85...and I'm guessing I'd need a 100-110max...the head only. The one that originally came with the truck...the odo took a dump on me so I used the 0-110 from a parts Corolla I had...worked okay enough...though the odo stopped turning for it eventually...even though it still worked. The speed discrepancy was about the same as mine now reads...just opposite. At the start of May I Spent 50$ off eBay for a proper replacement but now that replacement wont read right

The 5sp is of a much newer year and the speedo drive gear is probably different enough from the one I pulled from my dead tranny to prevent re-using it...maybe? The 5sps gear is pretty well stuck...I'd have to take channel locks to the threads and thus ruining the ability to attach the speedo cable...just to get the gear out. I guess its time to follow up on that speedo out of that mid 70s Toyota pickup...thats literally next door to the guy I got the 5sp from.

 

[Dadstruck]

Glad to see that you got it fixed for the most part. Let us know on the other

 

[RuralTowner]

4sp dying...a good thing so to speak...

Haven't yet had the chance to look into that other truck's speedo...I know where the guy lives...but since I have to drive onto a large piece of private property first to get there I'd just as soon wait till I see him again. Going back for that transmission though was an another matter. In this case I don't have a phone # so can't call ahead.

Anywho...all's been good so far. Since the swap I've gotten 32 on the first fill-up...31+ on the second (both had some headwinds)...32.2 on the third....and today's fill up? Somewhere right between 33.5 and 34mpgs by using the approx miles I travel to/from work (I used to use this method for an extended period and is within a few miles of the real #) and the adjusted number of my odo (every 5 miles I need to add 2). ~425 miles on 12.5-6 gallons...TAKE THAT you current "economy cars". My car never gave this much after babying it (32.7 and it did that only once)...and even the 78 Corolla I have (all but given up hope on fixing proper) wouldnt reach that # unless factory new even with its own 5sp.

At this rate the truck's gas savings will pay for the transmissions in about 6 months...

 

[MD_Weems]

LOL - that is funny. Glad you got the tranny fixed, hope you find a speedo that works out.

 

[gladden]

Looked like your trucks an adventure veteran already.

 

[TruckRider]

Hi RuralTowner, Have done done fixing all of those things you mention ? you look like a skill mechanic are you?