Brakes just dont work anymore, trying to find out why?

[Bradley40504]

Hi all
2003 Toyota Sequoia 2WD had it for 8 years now. Brakes needed to be serviced, have done usually one at a time as needed. Would repair when the pad was mostly or fully worn, metal to metal grinding which got worse really fast. This time it was the front left (driver) brake, grinding, the rotor was shot, and let it go until I could park it, it ran very low on brake oil, brake went to the floor. Filled it up, then had brakes again, and parked it. Was scary because its a steep downhill slope and hard turn to park in the back.

Put new pads + rotor last night. but in the dark without light, had some help and made a mistake of taking the bolts that separate the front caliper into 2? instead of the 2 bolts that remove it from the steering knuckle, got those also, but now its opened up. I used the old pad and pliers to squeeze the pistons down, it spewed out alot of oil. forgot to mention the rotor was froze on there, didnt want to damage the caliper by banging on the rotor so it was removed. when it was all back together? tire on there, jack back in the garage, Im sure it will work now? everyone get in? brake goes to the floor. hmm maybe a little air in the lines but it should work? NOTHING AT ALL!

Put it in reverse, push on the brakes to the floor? doesnt even slow it in the least! absolutely ZERO brakes. slammed it into park then realized the parking brake was there it works fine; look underneath? leaking oil. Today I take the caliper apart? the little o-ring seal was smashed/ruined. Toyota says you cannot get that o-ring. Found a kit at OReillys auto for $15 that has it. put it in, thinking finally its done, fixed, tire back on, jack in the garage? NO BRAKES STILL, not even the slightest. Brake reservoir full to the top mark, doesnt leak a drop now.

How can it have new pads there, have "good" pads on the other 3 wheels, no leaks at all and there is absolutely no braking? Unless the master cylinder went out at the same time? It has antilock brakes, which dont work because one of the other calipers in back is damaged, the brakes were very good, it had air and had to pump them at times, but it would stop it;

The way it is seems like a computer has to be 'reset'; but it acts like the master cylinder just went bad. Before doing anything I wish to get opinions by folks here. I was going to bleed the brakes, which hasnt been done as the other side front caliper's bleeder is broke, tried to loosen it and it sheared off. And that reminds me I forgot wd40. I used to be a mechanic, used to have a garage full of tools, books and had training so I tend to go by procedures until I learn them.

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[toyotafan]

I'm out right now. I'll respond later when I get home if no one else does.

 

[Bradley40504]

thank you so much! only have 1 car, and need to go somewhere, family mad at me, maybe if i try bleeding the brakes; but I mean there are zero brakes. push and it sort of builds up a little then you feel it go out and to the floor. Ive never done this on ABS systems. I dont have money to throw parts at it.

 

[toyotafan]

So you're running on 3 brake pads?

If the pedal goes to the floor than you might have a bad master cylinder or you didn't fully bleed the brakes. Your brake booster might have failed or a vacuum line came off.

Can you take a photo of your setup please? The caliper / pad and also under the hood.

 

[Bradley40504]

caliper is fine now, put together carefully; no leaks at all, master cyl. oil is at the top. i went to the right rear and opened the bleeder valve, nothing. pushed the brake pedal, nothing. finally after a while a tiny bit of oil came out. tried to bleed, partially both rear, absolutely zero brakes. put in R and let up on the parking brake? holding brake to the floor? truck goes backwards like no brake was pushed.

is there a reset of the ABS? could it have lost oil because its on the other side, maybe its got so much air it wont work. I am afraid to buy a master cyl and its not the problem

 

[Bradley40504]

too odd its the master cylinder going bad suddenly right now, has to be air in the lines

 

[toyotafan]

There are ways to reset ABS without a scanner tool. But I'm thinking it's either air in the lines or your brake booster.

Here's a video on resetting abs in a carolla but I think it's more likely as listed above.

 

[toyotafan]

Are you bleeding brakes by yourself with a tool or with someone helping?

 

[toyotafan]

Bleeding brakes by yourself.

 

[Bradley40504]

Are you bleeding brakes by yourself with a tool or with someone helping?

by myself.... i dont have hose or any more brake oil. The ABS unit, it should not interfere with the oil pressure from the master cyl right? it just pulses the pressure? The light itself, its ok if thats on and the power assist is ok, you can push to the floor, hard, Im about 270 lbs (maybe less now) and I mean push hard and there is zero, not the slightest braking. power assist failure it should still have some brake? But Ive never seen a system like this where its full of oil, all brakes good, no leaks and zero braking. will buy a few bottles of oil this time

problem is on the right front, the bleeder sheered off flush with the backing plate, thankfully doesnt leak but will need the caliper on the bench to work that thing out, so that one cant be bled tonite

 

[toyotafan]

I'm not understanding what you meant by sheered off.

 

[Bradley40504]

I was trying to open the bleeder valve and put the 10mm box wrench on it and tapped with a larger tool, instead of come loose it just broke off, leaving the piece on the wrench and now I cant grab it to try and open it, will need to take some punch and hammer and try to work it loose or drill and use an extractor? but right front bleeder cant be opened

 

[Bradley40504]

Hi, thanks for your help. I was going to try to bleed the brakes but am really worried now, reading forums and anything I can find on this, some comment that:

As the other stated I would think furthest all the way to the closest. But I would also put something under the brake pedal so that you don’t depress it any further than you do under braking. This keeps the master cylinder in it’s typical wear pattern. Damage can possibly occur to the seals in the master cylinder if extended beyond its normal wear pattern

And trying to get the brakes to work I pushed it hard. Is there a test you know of to see if the master cylinder is ruined? Should it be taken off and opened up? Altho just saying that doesnt sound right, I used to rebuild old cast iron master cylinders decades ago, hone, clean, new o rings etc.

You push and it builds a little pressure then you feel something give out and the pedal goes down, hard to explain. its morning and hope to get the tubing and brake fluid to bleed it; but if pushing the brake hard ruins the master cylinder Im worried, thanks for any advice

 

[Bradley40504]

a tech just told me the ABS may be in lockup mode? thinking its skidding and wont let oil to the back brakes. is there some reset of the unit itself? is clearing the light the same thing as resetting the unit itself?

 

[kennythewelder]

First off, you have air in the system. You need to do a complete brake bleed, including the master cylinder, and ABS unit. Second, all you system needs to be, up to par. If you have a broken bleeder valve then it needs to be replaced, or the caliper needs to be replaced. Third, you never change brake pads, one side at a time as it wares out. You do the both sides of the front or both sides of the back at the same time, or you do all 4 at the same time. You should never let you brakes get to the point where they are metal to metal contact, between the pads and rotor. Your brakes are maybe the most important safety system on you truck. If you are not sure of what you are doing, or lack the tools to do a proper job, then bring the truck somewhere to have it fixed properly. Its not worth getting into a wreck over saving a few bucks. In the long run, it could cost you a lot more than a brake job. All of this being said, yes, I do my own brake work, but I follow the same practices than any good brake shop would. I never skimp on parts, or try to save a few bucks when doing brake work. I have before bought a set of fully loaded calipers with pads, and a new rotors and replaced these on both sides at the same time. No this is not needed every time, but when it is, I will spend the money to get the brakes working like they should.

 

[Bradley40504]

Ok well its working now. Bleeding the lines fixed it.

First off, you have air in the system. You need to do a complete brake bleed, including the master cylinder, and ABS unit. Second, all you system needs to be, up to par. If you have a broken bleeder valve then it needs to be replaced, or the caliper needs to be replaced. Third, you never change brake pads, one side at a time as it wares out. You do the both sides of the front or both sides of the back at the same time, or you do all 4 at the same time. You should never let you brakes get to the point where they are metal to metal contact, between the pads and rotor. Your brakes are maybe the most important safety system on you truck. If you are not sure of what you are doing, or lack the tools to do a proper job, then bring the truck somewhere to have it fixed properly. Its not worth getting into a wreck over saving a few bucks. In the long run, it could cost you a lot more than a brake job. All of this being said, yes, I do my own brake work, but I follow the same practices than any good brake shop would. I never skimp on parts, or try to save a few bucks when doing brake work. I have before bought a set of fully loaded calipers with pads, and a new rotors and replaced these on both sides at the same time. No this is not needed every time, but when it is, I will spend the money to get the brakes working like they should.

I wouldnt accuse people of not knowing what theyre doing if you dont know who you say that to. what do you do when there simply is no money and you have to get kids to/from school, get food and do whats needed for part time work? I worked as a mechanic 7 years before going to college to learn automotive technology then got NIASE certified (now its just ASE) in 6 of 7 areas, never did AC then. I got training and did it by the book, where most dont care, I used torque wrenches where most dont. Worked careful and right, things worked the first time. I studied brake systems and the WHY of fixing them right, I had $20,000+ in tools, toolboxes, specialty parts, worked doing full line mechanic and had to be fast and correct, would always recommend brake service to customers, we were told to upsell everything, I know the pitch. Ive been a mechanic on 2 race crews, not that its something to brag about, but Ive been around alot of years. You dont skimp? good for you, but as the saying goes, "dont judge a man until youve walked a mile in his shoes"

In a perfect world, you change the brakes every (whatever you want). But when you cant make rent because theres not enough work and need to fix the brakes? they have to be safe for the cheapest cost. I had a pressure bleeder, access to a lift and my own compressor/air tools, Id have taken all 4 tires off and gone thru the brakes, replacing anything worn. Now I have to count pennies to buy a 2' piece of tubing and have to fix one at a time.

The problem here was that it has ABS & alot more brake line than older cars without ABS. So once I got something to do the bleeding w/a tube I got alot more air out than how i was bleeding them. with a 2nd person helping, took the time to bleed them and thats all the difference, a few feet of brake line versus 10 feet of brake line.

 

[Bradley40504]

Bleeding brakes by yourself.

This is basically the answer. This truck, unlike the older vehicles, has ABS and alot more brake line. I was wrong. I should have insisted on the home bleeding setup and not just let some of the air spew out and go. There was still alot of air in the lines. it works fine now

 

[toyotafan]

Glad to hear it. I do agree that brakes are so important that anything on them that is sub-par needs to be fixed asap.

 

[kennythewelder]

Your first post was unclear to me. I dont know you, or what you know. I know what its like to be poor, I grew up like that. Like you I was also a mechanic. I worked at 2 new car dealers, years ago. If I came off offenceve, that was not my intention, and I apoligze but I wanted you to understand just how important it is for your brakes to work as they should. The way people are sue happy today, you get into a wreck, and end up with a suit because of your brake work is not up to par, and it will cost a lot more than it would have to do a good brake job to start with, and that was my point. As for the bleed, you most likely need to do a pressure bleed, and have the ABS cycled. Like I said to start with, you have air in the system. The only way to get the air out, is to bleed the system.

 

[MuddyTacoma]

Hey @Bradley40504 how are those brakes holding up?